MSNBC
MSNBC 20 Apr 2020

US On Track To Learn Coronavirus Lessons The Hard Way

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Donald McNeil, science and health reporter for the New York Times, talks with Rachel Maddow about the yawning chasm between the rosy messaging the Trump administration and its supporters are pushing with regard to the coronavirus and the unavoidable reality of the virus that Americans will have to face sooner or later. Aired on 04/20/2020.


New York Governor Andrew Cuomo announced Friday that New York City is on track to begin reopening on June 8. In Phase 1 of reopening, 400,000 people in construction, manufacturing and retail can return to work with restrictions, Cuomo said. Watch his remarks.
Pascal Soriot, CEO of the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca, says he thinks "there's a good chance" the coronavirus vaccine they're working on with the University of Oxford will be successful. He spoke with CBS News' Charlie D'Agata about efforts to get a vaccine to the public in record time.
"Let's try it the right way."

Sen. Tim Kaine criticized Sen. Tim Scott on Wednesday for saying Democrats voted on the Republican Justice Act based "on the what" and instead voted "on the who."
As European Union nations continue to ease coronavirus restrictions, the EU is considering recommending that member states block American visitors from visiting their countries due to the surge of coronavirus cases in the US, according to two EU diplomats.
"The criteria will be focused on circulation of the virus," said one EU diplomat, adding that Brussels is looking to keep out travelers from countries "where the virus is circulating most actively."
No final decisions have been made and it is ultimately up to individual members to decide who can enter each country.
The New York Times was first to report on the possibility. The EU diplomats had not seen the draft lists of acceptable travelers the Times reported on, but they said they are aware that discussions are ongoing.

#Covid

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>> WELL, THAT COMES THROUGH, DON’T WORRY, THEY DIDN’T ROSY IT
DON’T WORRY, THEY DIDN’T ROSY IT UP TOO MUCH, BUT LET ME ASK YOU
UP TOO MUCH, BUT LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE DISTANCE THAT YOU SEE
ABOUT THE DISTANCE THAT YOU SEE BETWEEN WHERE YOU THINK WE’RE
BETWEEN WHERE YOU THINK WE’RE GOING, AND THE MORBID TY AND
GOING, AND THE MORBID TY AND MORTALITY THAT LAYS BEFORE US
MORTALITY THAT LAYS BEFORE US AND THE KINDS OF DECISIONS THAT
AND THE KINDS OF DECISIONS THAT ARE BEING MADE NOW TO LOOSEN ALL
ARE BEING MADE NOW TO LOOSEN ALL OF THE RESTRICTIONS, TO OPEN UP
OF THE RESTRICTIONS, TO OPEN UP DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUSINESSES
DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUSINESSES AND PLACES WHERE AMERICANS CAN
AND PLACES WHERE AMERICANS CAN CONGREGATE.
CONGREGATE. HOW BIG OF A CHAMP IS THERE
HOW BIG OF A CHAMP IS THERE BETWEEN WHERE YOU THINK WE’RE
BETWEEN WHERE YOU THINK WE’RE GOING AND THOSE KINDS OF POLICY
GOING AND THOSE KINDS OF POLICY DECISIONS.
DECISIONS. >> IT’S HUGE WERE THE PICTURE
>> IT’S HUGE WERE THE PICTURE COMING OUST WHITE HOUSE FOR A
COMING OUST WHITE HOUSE FOR A NUMBER OF WEEKS IS DON’T WORRY,
NUMBER OF WEEKS IS DON’T WORRY, THIS WILL ALL BE OVER IN A
THIS WILL ALL BE OVER IN A COUPLE OF MONTH, WE WILL BE ABLE
COUPLE OF MONTH, WE WILL BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO BARS AND
TO GO BACK TO BARS AND RESTAURANTS AND ALL STADIUMS
RESTAURANTS AND ALL STADIUMS WILL BE OPEN IN THE FALL AND
WILL BE OPEN IN THE FALL AND LIFE WILL BE BACK TO NORMAL.
LIFE WILL BE BACK TO NORMAL. AND I THINK IT’S BECOME A LITTLE
AND I THINK IT’S BECOME A LITTLE CLEARER TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, EVEN
CLEARER TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, EVEN PEOPLE WHO SEE THAT NOT
PEOPLE WHO SEE THAT NOT EVERYTHING IS ROSY AND SWEETENED
EVERYTHING IS ROSY AND SWEETENED REALIZING THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE
REALIZING THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE’RE GOING TO HAVING A LITTLE
WE’RE GOING TO HAVING A LITTLE MORE CAREFUL ABOUT THIS.
MORE CAREFUL ABOUT THIS. BUT THE TRUTH IS, YOU KNOW,
BUT THE TRUTH IS, YOU KNOW, WE’RE NOT SURE HOW MANY
WE’RE NOT SURE HOW MANY AMERICANS GOT INFECTED IN THE
AMERICANS GOT INFECTED IN THE FIRST WAVE, BUT THE ESTIMATES
FIRST WAVE, BUT THE ESTIMATES I’VE SEEN ARE BETWEEN THREE TO
I’VE SEEN ARE BETWEEN THREE TO 10% OF THE COUNTRY.
10% OF THE COUNTRY. AND A COUNTRY OF 330 MILLION
AND A COUNTRY OF 330 MILLION PEOPLE, THAT MEANS ABOUT 300
PEOPLE, THAT MEANS ABOUT 300 MILLION OF US ARE STILL
MILLION OF US ARE STILL VULNERABLE TO THE VIRUS.
VULNERABLE TO THE VIRUS. AND THERE’S NO SCENARIO IN WHICH
AND THERE’S NO SCENARIO IN WHICH 300 MILLION PEOPLE CAN COME
300 MILLION PEOPLE CAN COME RUNNING OUT ON TO THE STREETS
RUNNING OUT ON TO THE STREETS AND BEACHES AND HOPPING BACK ON
AND BEACHES AND HOPPING BACK ON TO THE SUBWAYS AND GOING BACK
TO THE SUBWAYS AND GOING BACK INTO OUR OFFICES AND PILING
INTO OUR OFFICES AND PILING INTO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE END OF
INTO, YOU KNOW, FOR THE END OF THE BASKETBALL SEASON, OR THE
THE BASKETBALL SEASON, OR THE BASEBALL SEASON, AND NOT HAVE
BASEBALL SEASON, AND NOT HAVE THIS ALL START OVER AGAIN.
THIS ALL START OVER AGAIN. AND LAST TIME YOU SAW IT FROM
AND LAST TIME YOU SAW IT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, WE WERE ON THE
THE WHITE HOUSE, WE WERE ON THE TRAJECTORY UP TO SOMEWHERE
TRAJECTORY UP TO SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1.6 AND 2.2 MILLION
BETWEEN 1.6 AND 2.2 MILLION DEATHS AND WE HAVEN’T LOBBED OFF
DEATHS AND WE HAVEN’T LOBBED OFF VERY MUCH OF THAT WHOLE EQUATION
VERY MUCH OF THAT WHOLE EQUATION AND MADE THOSE PEOPLE IMMUNE.
AND MADE THOSE PEOPLE IMMUNE. A TINY PROPORTION OF THE COUNTRY
A TINY PROPORTION OF THE COUNTRY IS IMMUNE NOW.
IS IMMUNE NOW. SO WE’LL GO BACK ON THE SAME
SO WE’LL GO BACK ON THE SAME TRACK AGAIN IF WE COME OUT.
TRACK AGAIN IF WE COME OUT. AND THAT’S, PEOPLE HAVE TO
AND THAT’S, PEOPLE HAVE TO REALIZE
REALIZE REALIZE, THAT THIS IS GOING TO
REALIZE, THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A SLOW CAREFUL COMING OUT,
BE A SLOW CAREFUL COMING OUT, AND WE’VE GOT TO WATCH, AND WHEN
AND WE’VE GOT TO WATCH, AND WHEN TONY FAUCI USES THE EXPRESSION
TONY FAUCI USES THE EXPRESSION THE VIRUS WILL TELL US, HE MEANS
THE VIRUS WILL TELL US, HE MEANS IF WE HAVE BROAD SPREAD TESTING
IF WE HAVE BROAD SPREAD TESTING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND
ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND ENORMOUS NUMBER OF TESTS EVERY
ENORMOUS NUMBER OF TESTS EVERY DAY AND THOSE TESTS HAVE TO BE
DAY AND THOSE TESTS HAVE TO BE RAPID BECAUSE YOU NEED RESULTS
RAPID BECAUSE YOU NEED RESULTS AND A STUDY CAME OUT OF HARVARD
AND A STUDY CAME OUT OF HARVARD TODAY, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT FIVE
TODAY, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT FIVE TO TEN MILLION TESTS PER DAY, WE
TO TEN MILLION TESTS PER DAY, WE NEED, IN ORDER TO RLTEALLY HAVE
NEED, IN ORDER TO RLTEALLY HAVE GOOD EYEBALL ON THE SITUATION IN
GOOD EYEBALL ON THE SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY.
THE COUNTRY. WHEN WE GET THERE, WE CAN WATCH
WHEN WE GET THERE, WE CAN WATCH THOSE TEST, AND WHEN THE
THOSE TEST, AND WHEN THE POSITIVES BEGIN TO GO UP, WE CAN
POSITIVES BEGIN TO GO UP, WE CAN SAY, OKAY, TIME TO SOCIALLY
SAY, OKAY, TIME TO SOCIALLY DISTANCE A LITTLE MORE, LET’S
DISTANCE A LITTLE MORE, LET’S BACK OFF, AND NOT A TOTAL
BACK OFF, AND NOT A TOTAL LOCKDOWN BUT INTO ENOUGH
LOCKDOWN BUT INTO ENOUGH LOCKDOWN SO THAT CURVES INSTEAD
LOCKDOWN SO THAT CURVES INSTEAD OF GOING UP BEGIN TO GO DOWN
OF GOING UP BEGIN TO GO DOWN AGAIN.
AGAIN. IT’S A SET OF CONSTANTLY
IT’S A SET OF CONSTANTLY FLATTENING THE CURVES.
FLATTENING THE CURVES. AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE
AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE EPIDEMIOLOGICAL MODELS IS WE’RE
EPIDEMIOLOGICAL MODELS IS WE’RE NO LONGER ON THAT GIANT ALPINE
NO LONGER ON THAT GIANT ALPINE SPIKE, UP TO TWO MILLION DEATHS
SPIKE, UP TO TWO MILLION DEATHS BUT TO SAY IT IS GOING TO BE
BUT TO SAY IT IS GOING TO BE KIND OF A SERIES OF SHARK TEETH,
KIND OF A SERIES OF SHARK TEETH, SOME DEATHS AND LOCKDOWN AND
SOME DEATHS AND LOCKDOWN AND THEN DEATHS COME DOWN AND SOME
THEN DEATHS COME DOWN AND SOME DEATHS AND WE GO BACK INTO THE
DEATHS AND WE GO BACK INTO THE LOCKDOWN AND IT COMES DOWN AND
LOCKDOWN AND IT COMES DOWN AND THIS MAY CAN CONTINUE UNTIL WE
THIS MAY CAN CONTINUE UNTIL WE HAVE A VACCINE OR A PROPHYLACTIC
HAVE A VACCINE OR A PROPHYLACTIC PILL WHICH MAY TAKE A WHILE, 18
PILL WHICH MAY TAKE A WHILE, 18 MONTHS MINIMUM.
MONTHS MINIMUM. >> LET ME ASK A CYNICAL
>> LET ME ASK A CYNICAL QUESTION, A CYNICAL QUESTION, I
QUESTION, A CYNICAL QUESTION, I GUESS, A NONROSE-COLORED GLASSES
GUESS, A NONROSE-COLORED GLASSES OF YOU, GIVEN THAT SCENARIO, I
OF YOU, GIVEN THAT SCENARIO, I DO NOT HAVE FAITH IN OUR
DO NOT HAVE FAITH IN OUR GOVERNING CAPACITY AS A COUNTRY,
GOVERNING CAPACITY AS A COUNTRY, PARTICULARLY AT THE FEDERAL
PARTICULARLY AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, BUT ALSO IN A LOT OF
LEVEL, BUT ALSO IN A LOT OF STATES, TO THINK ABOUT US BEING
STATES, TO THINK ABOUT US BEING ABLE TO RATCHET SOCIAL
ABLE TO RATCHET SOCIAL DISTANCING MEASURES UP AND DOWN,
DISTANCING MEASURES UP AND DOWN, BASED ON EPIDEMIOLOGICAL
BASED ON EPIDEMIOLOGICAL IMPERATIVES.
IMPERATIVES. I JUST DON’T THINK THAT WE’RE
I JUST DON’T THINK THAT WE’RE NIMBLE ENOUGH AND RATIONAL
NIMBLE ENOUGH AND RATIONAL ENOUGH, AND SCIENCE-BASED
ENOUGH, AND SCIENCE-BASED ENOUGH, TO DO THAT AS A COUNTRY.
ENOUGH, TO DO THAT AS A COUNTRY. AND SO I LOOK AROUND, AND I SEE
AND SO I LOOK AROUND, AND I SEE THE PRESIDENT INSISTING ON
THE PRESIDENT INSISTING ON OPENING THINGS UP, RED STATE
OPENING THINGS UP, RED STATE GOVERNORS INSISTING ON OPENING
GOVERNORS INSISTING ON OPENING THINGS UP, AND I CAN’T IMAGINE
THINGS UP, AND I CAN’T IMAGINE THAT THEY WILL EVER RATCHET
THAT THEY WILL EVER RATCHET THINGS DOWN AGAIN IN THE OTHER
THINGS DOWN AGAIN IN THE OTHER DIRECTION BECAUSE THEY WILL SEE
DIRECTION BECAUSE THEY WILL SEE IT AS A POLITICAL FAILURE.
IT AS A POLITICAL FAILURE. IF THEY DO OPEN THINGS UP, AND
IF THEY DO OPEN THINGS UP, AND NEVER RATCHET THINGS BACK DOWN,
NEVER RATCHET THINGS BACK DOWN, WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT CURVE?
WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT CURVE? DO WE GO BACK TO THE ALPINE
DO WE GO BACK TO THE ALPINE SLOPE TO POTENTIALLY MILLIONS
SLOPE TO POTENTIALLY MILLIONS DEAD?
DEAD? >> I DON’T NECESSARILY AGREE
>> I DON’T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH YOU.
WITH YOU. I MEAN I THINK A NUMBER OF
I MEAN I THINK A NUMBER OF GOVERNORS ARE VERY CLUED UP ON
GOVERNORS ARE VERY CLUED UP ON THIS, ANDREW CUOMO BEING ONE OF
THIS, ANDREW CUOMO BEING ONE OF THEM.
THEM. GAVIN NEWSOM BEING ANOTHER, MIKE
GAVIN NEWSOM BEING ANOTHER, MIKE DEWINE IN ANOTHER BEING ANOTHER,
DEWINE IN ANOTHER BEING ANOTHER, AND THEY WILL RECOGNIZE IT.
AND THEY WILL RECOGNIZE IT. THE OTHER GOVERNORS ARE GOING TO
THE OTHER GOVERNORS ARE GOING TO SEE A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF THEIR
SEE A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF THEIR VOTERS DIE.
VOTERS DIE. AND THEY WILL GET THE LESSON.
AND THEY WILL GET THE LESSON. IT MAY TAKE A COUPLE OF WAVES OF
IT MAY TAKE A COUPLE OF WAVES OF THE PANDEMIC BUT THEY’LL FIGURE
THE PANDEMIC BUT THEY’LL FIGURE IT OUT.
IT OUT. AND YOU KNOW, THERE’S AN
AND YOU KNOW, THERE’S AN EXPRESSION IN THE ARMY, YOU
EXPRESSION IN THE ARMY, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES TO GET THE
KNOW, SOMETIMES TO GET THE ATTENTION OF A MULE, YOU HAVE TO
ATTENTION OF A MULE, YOU HAVE TO TAKE A TWO-BY-FOUR TO IT.
TAKE A TWO-BY-FOUR TO IT. THAT’S KIND OF WHAT WE’RE
THAT’S KIND OF WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT HERE.
LOOKING AT HERE. IT MAY TAKE THE DEATHS OF SOME
IT MAY TAKE THE DEATHS OF SOME PEOPLE FOR GOVERNORS TO REALIZE
PEOPLE FOR GOVERNORS TO REALIZE THAT RUNNING OUT INTO THE OPEN
THAT RUNNING OUT INTO THE OPEN IS NOT SAFE.
IS NOT SAFE. AND I, YOU KNOW, HOPE THAT THE
AND I, YOU KNOW, HOPE THAT THE POPULOUS WILL BE MORE SENSEIBLE
POPULOUS WILL BE MORE SENSEIBLE ABOUT THAT AND THE GOVERNORS
ABOUT THAT AND THE GOVERNORS WILL REALIZE WHO THEY’RE PUTTING
WILL REALIZE WHO THEY’RE PUTTING AT RISK, IT’S GOING TO BE THEIR
AT RISK, IT’S GOING TO BE THEIR OWN PEOPLE, BUT THAT’S LEARNING
OWN PEOPLE, BUT THAT’S LEARNING THE HARD WAY AND I SUSPECT
THE HARD WAY AND I SUSPECT THAT’S WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN IN
THAT’S WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN IN SOME STATES.
SOME STATES. >> THAT’S TERRIBLE.
>> THAT’S TERRIBLE. I MEAN I BELIEVE YOU.
I MEAN I BELIEVE YOU. BUT THAT’S TERRIBLE.
BUT THAT’S TERRIBLE. AND I FEEL LIKE I HAVE ALREADY
AND I FEEL LIKE I HAVE ALREADY BEEN WATCHING IN A MICRO LEVEL,
BEEN WATCHING IN A MICRO LEVEL, I’VE BEEN WATCHING MEDICAL
I’VE BEEN WATCHING MEDICAL ASSOCIATIONS, NURSES
ASSOCIATIONS, NURSES ASSOCIATIONS, HOSPITAL
ASSOCIATIONS, HOSPITAL ASSOCIATIONS, TELL GOVERNORS,
ASSOCIATIONS, TELL GOVERNORS, PLEASE DON’T DO THIS.
PLEASE DON’T DO THIS. PLEASE GIVE US A STAY-AT-HOME
PLEASE GIVE US A STAY-AT-HOME ORDER, OR LIKE IN THE CASE OF
ORDER, OR LIKE IN THE CASE OF NEBRASKA, THEY’RE GOING TO
NEBRASKA, THEY’RE GOING TO REOPEN THIS GIGANTIC MALL JUST
REOPEN THIS GIGANTIC MALL JUST OUTSIDE OMAHA, IN THE NEBRASKA
OUTSIDE OMAHA, IN THE NEBRASKA HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION, HAS SAID
HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION, HAS SAID TO GOVERNOR RICKETTS, THERE,
TO GOVERNOR RICKETTS, THERE, PLEASE, FOR THE SAKE OF THE
PLEASE, FOR THE SAKE OF THE HOSPITALS IN THIS RURAL STATE,
HOSPITALS IN THIS RURAL STATE, DO NOT DO THIS, AND HE HAS BLOWN
DO NOT DO THIS, AND HE HAS BLOWN THEM OFF AND GOING TO OPEN THAT
THEM OFF AND GOING TO OPEN THAT STUFF UP ANYWAY, I’M REALLY
STUFF UP ANYWAY, I’M REALLY WORRIED THAT THE FEEDBACK LOOP
WORRIED THAT THE FEEDBACK LOOP HERE ISN’T WORKING, IN TERMS OF
HERE ISN’T WORKING, IN TERMS OF MEDICAL EXPERTISE.
MEDICAL EXPERTISE. >> WELL, THE DIAMOND PRINCESS
>> WELL, THE DIAMOND PRINCESS DIDN’T WORK OUT AS EXPECTED,
DIDN’T WORK OUT AS EXPECTED, EITHER.
EITHER. SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THE
SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THE EPIDEMIOLOGICAL MODELS ON THE
EPIDEMIOLOGICAL MODELS ON THE DIAMOND PRINCESS, SAYS EVEN IF
DIAMOND PRINCESS, SAYS EVEN IF THERE WERE COMPLICATIONS ABOARD,
THERE WERE COMPLICATIONS ABOARD, IF YOU LOCKED THE SHIP DOWN, YOU
IF YOU LOCKED THE SHIP DOWN, YOU WOULD HAVE LESS THAN 64 CASES BY
WOULD HAVE LESS THAN 64 CASES BY THE TIME THEY EMPTIED THE CASE A
THE TIME THEY EMPTIED THE CASE A MONTH LATER.
MONTH LATER. THEY HAD 712.
THEY HAD 712. SO SOMETHING WENT BADLY WRONG ON
SO SOMETHING WENT BADLY WRONG ON THAT SHIP.
THAT SHIP. WE LEARNED THAT THERE IS A LOT
WE LEARNED THAT THERE IS A LOT OF SUPER SPREADER EVENTS.
OF SUPER SPREADER EVENTS. YOU KNOW, WE’VE LEARNED, YOU
YOU KNOW, WE’VE LEARNED, YOU KNOW, THAT VIRGINIA, GOD WILL
KNOW, THAT VIRGINIA, GOD WILL PROTECT ME, AND I WILL HAVE THE
PROTECT ME, AND I WILL HAVE THE LOVE OF JESUS AND HE DIED AND
LOVE OF JESUS AND HE DIED AND INFECTED HIS WIFE.
INFECTED HIS WIFE. PEOPLE LEARN LESSONS THE HARD
PEOPLE LEARN LESSONS THE HARD WAY, WE SAW CHRIS CUOMO ON CNN,
WAY, WE SAW CHRIS CUOMO ON CNN, QUARANTINING AT HOME.
QUARANTINING AT HOME. AND DOING IT ABOUT AS PERFECTLY
AND DOING IT ABOUT AS PERFECTLY AS YOU COULD.
AS YOU COULD. HE WAS IN THE BASEMENT AND THERE
HE WAS IN THE BASEMENT AND THERE WAS A BATHROOM, WIFE LEFT THE
WAS A BATHROOM, WIFE LEFT THE FOOD AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS,
FOOD AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS, KIDS DIDN’T COME DOWN AND HIS
KIDS DIDN’T COME DOWN AND HIS WIFE ENDED UP BECOMING INFECTED.
WIFE ENDED UP BECOMING INFECTED. THE VIRUS TEACHES US LESSONS.
THE VIRUS TEACHES US LESSONS. AND THAT’S A LESSON WE’VE KNOWN
AND THAT’S A LESSON WE’VE KNOWN IN THE 19th CENTURY, IN THE 18th
IN THE 19th CENTURY, IN THE 18th CENTURY, THE 17th CENTURY, WE
CENTURY, THE 17th CENTURY, WE SORT OF FORGOT IT IN THE 20th
SORT OF FORGOT IT IN THE 20th CENTURY, IN THE AGE OF VACCINES.
CENTURY, IN THE AGE OF VACCINES. BUT WE’RE BEING REMINDED OF IT
BUT WE’RE BEING REMINDED OF IT AGAIN, WITH THIS VIRUS, BECAUSE

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