MSNBC

MSNBC 24 Mar 2020

'The Virus Doesn't Care If You're a Democrat or Republican:' Global Health Expert

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Dr. Ashish Jha, the director of the Global Health Institute at Harvard University, discusses the problem with reopening the economy: "The virus doesn't care if you're a Democrat or Republican. The virus is going to run rampant." Aired on 3/24/20.
#MSNBC #AllIn #ChrisHayes #Coronavirus


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>> MY PLEASURE. THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME
THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. >>> I NOW WANT TO BRING YOU --
>>> I NOW WANT TO BRING YOU -- YOU BET.
YOU BET. I WANT TO BRING IN THE DIRECTOR
I WANT TO BRING IN THE DIRECTOR OF THE GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE
OF THE GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY.
AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY. HE HAS BEEN VERY OUTSPOKEN ABOUT
HE HAS BEEN VERY OUTSPOKEN ABOUT THIS.
THIS. FIRST, SORT OF AT THE BROADEST
FIRST, SORT OF AT THE BROADEST LEVEL OF ABSTRACTION IT STRIKES
LEVEL OF ABSTRACTION IT STRIKES ME THERE ARE TWO UNIQUE
ME THERE ARE TWO UNIQUE CHALLENGES THE U.S. IS FACING NO
CHALLENGES THE U.S. IS FACING NO ONE ELSE QUITE HAS FACED, WHICH
ONE ELSE QUITE HAS FACED, WHICH IS THE CONTOURS OF AMERICAN
IS THE CONTOURS OF AMERICAN FEDERALISM WITH STATE AND LOCAL
FEDERALISM WITH STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TAKING DIFFERENT
GOVERNMENTS TAKING DIFFERENT ACTIONS AND THE GEOGRAPHIC
ACTIONS AND THE GEOGRAPHIC BREADTH OF THE DIFFERENT
BREADTH OF THE DIFFERENT EPICENTERS IN THE PANDEMIC, BOTH
EPICENTERS IN THE PANDEMIC, BOTH OF WHICH SEEM MORE KIND OF
OF WHICH SEEM MORE KIND OF VARIGATED THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY
VARIGATED THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY THAT HAD TO ENCOUNTER IT.
THAT HAD TO ENCOUNTER IT. HOW DO YOU SEE THAT?
HOW DO YOU SEE THAT? >> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND, OF COURSE, A THIRD PART,
AND, OF COURSE, A THIRD PART, CHRIS, WHICH IS WE WERE THE
CHRIS, WHICH IS WE WERE THE SLOWEST OFF THE GATE IN TERMS OF
SLOWEST OFF THE GATE IN TERMS OF GETTING TESTING GOING SO WE WERE
GETTING TESTING GOING SO WE WERE BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL RIGHT FROM
BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL RIGHT FROM THE START BY THE TIME THIS
THE START BY THE TIME THIS DISEASE REALLY EXPLODED IN THE
DISEASE REALLY EXPLODED IN THE U.S., WE WERE WAY BEHIND.
U.S., WE WERE WAY BEHIND. BUT YOU’RE ASH ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
BUT YOU’RE ASH ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. BROAD COUNTRY, BIG COUNTRY, LOTS
BROAD COUNTRY, BIG COUNTRY, LOTS OF BIG CITIES, LOTS OF SUBURBAN
OF BIG CITIES, LOTS OF SUBURBAN AND RURAL AREAS, AND THEN
AND RURAL AREAS, AND THEN FEDERALISM, RIGHT.
FEDERALISM, RIGHT. AND FEDERALISM HAS SOME UPSIDES,
AND FEDERALISM HAS SOME UPSIDES, SO THE PRESIDENT HAS REFUSED TO
SO THE PRESIDENT HAS REFUSED TO CALL FOR A NATIONAL PAUSE, A
CALL FOR A NATIONAL PAUSE, A NATIONAL SHELTER IN PLACE,
NATIONAL SHELTER IN PLACE, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. BUT GOOD NEWS IS STATES CAN
BUT GOOD NEWS IS STATES CAN STILL TAKE A LEAD.
STILL TAKE A LEAD. SO THERE ARE MOMENTS WHEN
SO THERE ARE MOMENTS WHEN FEDERALISM IS HELPFUL, BUT IT
FEDERALISM IS HELPFUL, BUT IT TURNS OUT, YOU KNOW, THE VIRUS
TURNS OUT, YOU KNOW, THE VIRUS DOESN’T, YOU KNOW, RESPECT
DOESN’T, YOU KNOW, RESPECT NATIONAL BORDERS.
NATIONAL BORDERS. IT CERTAINLY DOESN’T RESPECT
IT CERTAINLY DOESN’T RESPECT STATE BORDERS, SO IT IS VERY
STATE BORDERS, SO IT IS VERY HARD TO DO THINGS WHEN ALL OF
HARD TO DO THINGS WHEN ALL OF THE STATES ARE NOT SYNCHRONIZED.
THE STATES ARE NOT SYNCHRONIZED. >> WELL, WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT
>> WELL, WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THIS?
THIS? I WANT TO PLAY YOU RON DeSANTIS.
I WANT TO PLAY YOU RON DeSANTIS. HE HAS BEEN VERY RELUCTANT TO
HE HAS BEEN VERY RELUCTANT TO KIND OF SHUT DOWN BUSINESS IN
KIND OF SHUT DOWN BUSINESS IN THE STATE ALONG THE LINES OF
THE STATE ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT WE’VE SEEN IN OTHER PLACES,
WHAT WE’VE SEEN IN OTHER PLACES, PARTICULARLY LIKE CALIFORNIA.
PARTICULARLY LIKE CALIFORNIA. TAKE A LISTEN.
TAKE A LISTEN. >> IT WOULD BE A VERY BLUNT
>> IT WOULD BE A VERY BLUNT INSTRUMENT.
INSTRUMENT. WHEN YOU ARE ORDERING PEOPLE TO
WHEN YOU ARE ORDERING PEOPLE TO SHELTER IN PLACE, YOU ARE
SHELTER IN PLACE, YOU ARE CONSIGNING A NUMBER -- PROBABLY
CONSIGNING A NUMBER -- PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF FLORIDIANS TO LOSE THEIR JOBS.
FLORIDIANS TO LOSE THEIR JOBS. YOU ARE THROWING THEIR LIVES
YOU ARE THROWING THEIR LIVES INTO A POTENTIAL DISARRAY, AND
INTO A POTENTIAL DISARRAY, AND IF THAT WERE SOMETHING THAT WERE
IF THAT WERE SOMETHING THAT WERE NECESSARY STATEWIDE BECAUSE THE
NECESSARY STATEWIDE BECAUSE THE HEALTH COMES FIRST, YOU KNOW,
HEALTH COMES FIRST, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE ONE THING.
THAT WOULD BE ONE THING. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT FLORIDA’S
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT FLORIDA’S SITUATION RIGHT NOW, THIS IS NOT
SITUATION RIGHT NOW, THIS IS NOT A VIRUS THAT’S IMPACTING EVERY
A VIRUS THAT’S IMPACTING EVERY CORNER OF THE STATE.
CORNER OF THE STATE. >> I GUESS THE QUESTION IS HOW
>> I GUESS THE QUESTION IS HOW LONG CAN THAT -- THAT STATUS QUO
LONG CAN THAT -- THAT STATUS QUO BE MAINTAINED GIVEN WHAT WE KNOW
BE MAINTAINED GIVEN WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE VIRUS?
ABOUT THE VIRUS? >> LOOK, SO FIRST OF ALL HE IS
>> LOOK, SO FIRST OF ALL HE IS RIGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, A SHELTER
RIGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, A SHELTER IN PLACE IS ECONOMICALLY
IN PLACE IS ECONOMICALLY DISRUPTIVE.
DISRUPTIVE. LET’S JUST OWN IT.
LET’S JUST OWN IT. IT IS VERY DISRUPTIVE, IT IS
IT IS VERY DISRUPTIVE, IT IS HARD ON PEOPLE.
HARD ON PEOPLE. THAT HAS A LOT OF CONSEQUENCES.
THAT HAS A LOT OF CONSEQUENCES. THE PROBLEM WITH THIS VIRUS IS
THE PROBLEM WITH THIS VIRUS IS THAT IT IS INSIDIOUS.
THAT IT IS INSIDIOUS. IT SORT OF GROWS AND GROWS AND
IT SORT OF GROWS AND GROWS AND GROWS IN YOUR COMMUNITY, AND
GROWS IN YOUR COMMUNITY, AND THEN WHEN IT BECOMES APPARENT
THEN WHEN IT BECOMES APPARENT WHEN YOUR ICUs START GETTING
WHEN YOUR ICUs START GETTING FULL, BOY, IT IS LATE IN THE
FULL, BOY, IT IS LATE IN THE GAME.
GAME. CALLING FOR A SHELTER IN PLACE
CALLING FOR A SHELTER IN PLACE THEN IS REALLY A PROBLEM.
THEN IS REALLY A PROBLEM. SO HE’S JUST -- HE’S WASTING
SO HE’S JUST -- HE’S WASTING ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME, AND
ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME, AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO PAY
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT ARE THE PEOPLE OF
FOR IT ARE THE PEOPLE OF FLORIDA.
FLORIDA. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS IDEA, YOU KNOW, WE GOT TO GET
IDEA, YOU KNOW, WE GOT TO GET BACK TO BUSINESS IN THE NEXT
BACK TO BUSINESS IN THE NEXT TWO-AND-A-HALF WEEKS?
TWO-AND-A-HALF WEEKS? THE PRESIDENT TALKING ABOUT
THE PRESIDENT TALKING ABOUT EASTER.
EASTER. MORE VOICES, PARTICULARLY I
MORE VOICES, PARTICULARLY I THINK AMONGST CONSERVATIVES, NOT
THINK AMONGST CONSERVATIVES, NOT TOTALLY BUT PARTICULARLY AMONGST
TOTALLY BUT PARTICULARLY AMONGST CONSERVATIVES, WE HAVE TO GET
CONSERVATIVES, WE HAVE TO GET BACK OUT THERE, IF I HAVE TO LAY
BACK OUT THERE, IF I HAVE TO LAY DOWN MY LIFE TO PRESERVE THE
DOWN MY LIFE TO PRESERVE THE AMERICAN ECONOMY, I’M WILLING TO
AMERICAN ECONOMY, I’M WILLING TO DO IT, AS A PUBLIC HEALTH MATTER
DO IT, AS A PUBLIC HEALTH MATTER WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEAR
WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEAR THAT?
THAT? >> THINK IT IS A COMPLETELY
>> THINK IT IS A COMPLETELY FALSE CHOICE.
FALSE CHOICE. IT IS NOT A MONEY-OR-YOUR-LIFE
IT IS NOT A MONEY-OR-YOUR-LIFE SITUATION.
SITUATION. I GET IT.
I GET IT. IT IS PAINFUL.
IT IS PAINFUL. PEOPLE WANT TO OPEN UP AGAIN.
PEOPLE WANT TO OPEN UP AGAIN. HERE IS THE PROBLEM.
HERE IS THE PROBLEM. IF WE OPEN UP TOO SOON, THE
IF WE OPEN UP TOO SOON, THE VIRUS DOESN’T CARE IF YOU ARE
VIRUS DOESN’T CARE IF YOU ARE DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.
DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN. THE VIRUS IS GOING TO RUN
THE VIRUS IS GOING TO RUN RAMPANT.
RAMPANT. WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS IN
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS IN FOUR TO SIX WEEKS ALL OF THE
FOUR TO SIX WEEKS ALL OF THE PLACES THAT OPEN UP AGAIN WILL
PLACES THAT OPEN UP AGAIN WILL SEE THIS INFLUX, THEIR HOSPITALS
SEE THIS INFLUX, THEIR HOSPITALS WILL GET SHUT DOWN AND THEY WILL
WILL GET SHUT DOWN AND THEY WILL BE IN BIG TROUBLE, AND THEN WE
BE IN BIG TROUBLE, AND THEN WE WILL HAVE A NATIONAL LOCKDOWN
WILL HAVE A NATIONAL LOCKDOWN THAT WILL LAST MUCH LONGER AND
THAT WILL LAST MUCH LONGER AND MANY MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE.
MANY MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE. EVEN IF YOU JUST CARE ABOUT THE
EVEN IF YOU JUST CARE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THIS IS A REALLY BAD
ECONOMY, THIS IS A REALLY BAD IDEA.
IDEA. WE HAVE JUST SET UP A FALSE
WE HAVE JUST SET UP A FALSE DICHOTOMY OF LIFE VERSUS
DICHOTOMY OF LIFE VERSUS ECONOMY.
ECONOMY. NO, WE HAVE TO FIND A THIRD WAY
NO, WE HAVE TO FIND A THIRD WAY THAT ALLOWS THE ECONOMY TO
THAT ALLOWS THE ECONOMY TO FUNCTION AND SAVE LIVES.
FUNCTION AND SAVE LIVES. I THINK WE CAN.
I THINK WE CAN. I THINK WE CAN.
I THINK WE CAN. >> YEAH, WE NEED TO TEST AND
>> YEAH, WE NEED TO TEST AND TRACE AND IMPLEMENT A REGIME
TRACE AND IMPLEMENT A REGIME SOMETHING LIKE WHAT THEY’VE DONE
SOMETHING LIKE WHAT THEY’VE DONE IN PLACES LIKE SOUTH KOREA AND
IN PLACES LIKE SOUTH KOREA AND JAPAN AND OTHERS.
JAPAN AND OTHERS. >> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. >> DR. ASHISH JHA, YOU HAVE BEEN

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